palantir:
i love the family trees and the timelines. it really touched me that goldilocks and faramir were married. and look at how sam named his children! (bilbo, frodo, etc.) he must have missed them all so much.
maggiest:
i bet if sam had another son, he'd name the baby figwit.
i'm still working my way through the first book... can't wait for the pippin and palantír scene in book two. must read faster...
palantir:
nahh... savor it, lol.
pipkin sweetgrass:
yes! do savor it. ever thought about the characters who looked into the palantír and came away uncorrupted? i was thinking about this last night. when i thought about it i realized that this says something in and of itself about our ernil i pheriannath.
only two... aragorn, who became king and peregrin son of paladin took, who became thain, and whom we here call ernil, prince. oh, yeah, also the took. cool, a king and a prince.
does anyone know the nature of the thain's duties? if not, let's find out. it should be interesting.
herald7:
according to the prologue, the thain is a largely ceremonial title but in times of war he's in charge of the hobbitry... like infantry... ha ha.
katyliz76:
this is probably the most excellent thread i have ever read on these forums. i have sat here for the past 10 minutes just taking all of your comments in. i may be repeating something, so please excuse me if i am beating a dead dog to death.
in ttt, when pippin tells treebeard to turn south, when he tells him "wait..." you can actually see the click in his eyes. you can see the wheels turning in his head. it's the most amazing thing. in rotk pippin gains so much, whether it be talking to denethor about his son's death or seeing the sights of gondor and all its glory. i just pray... i pray that pj has shot rotk letting everyone know that pippin has finally found his courage.
kate
pipkin sweetgrass:
quote: in ttt, when pippin tells treebeard to turn south, when he tells him "wait...", you can actually see the click in his eyes. you can see the wheels turning in his head. it's the most amazing thing.
omg!!! **what a relief!** i thought i imagined that, but apparently not... i thought that maybe i've been looking at too many pics of billy.
as if that were possible!
i know the very instant you're talking about!
the color in his eyes seems to deepen,and they look as though they are going to spin, or light up, or ought to spin, or light up or something!
his entire face lights up and it's as plain as if you could read the hobbit's mind.
yes, i'm feart 'tis so. there will never be another pippin.
billy has made the character his own.
as many years as pippin has been my dearest 'friend' and constant companion, i never really knew what he looked like.
thanks to billy boyd, now i know pip when i 'see' him.
herald7:
sometimes that is when you know if the person is a good actor, if you can see the wheels turning.
lostsailors:
ooh, i have all sorts of interesting thain info- but herald is compleatly right. it's a name which used to entail military-like jobs, but since has become largely ceremonial. the real power is in the job of the mayor. he oversees all the important happenings in the shire (such as... eating?).
but here's some interesting thain history for you if you'd like to know more about the office.
when the great northern kingdom (arnor) was destroyed after the battle of angmar, the hobbits who had settled in the cradle of land between the brandywine river and the far downs chose from their own people chieftains, one to act as thain, to hold power while the king was gone.
the office originally passed from the oldbucks (bucca of the marish was the first thain, whom from
the oldbucks claimed to be descendants) to the took family, and ever since the head of the
took family had been pre-eminent for the role. of the took line, gerontius (the old took) was thain for the longest period of time, at 72 years.
isengrim III, due to the old took's extraordinary office, came late to the thainship, and died ten years after becoming the shire-thain, leaving no heir. he was succeeded by his younger brother isumbras IV. like his brother, isumbras came late into the thainship, and it was only nine years before the office was again passed on, this time to isumbras' son, fortinbras II. fortinbras was thain during bilbo's famous adventures. he was succeeded by his son ferumbras III, who was thain when bilbo threw his infamous 111th birthday party.
ferumbras never married in his life, and therefore left no heir. the thainship then passed to the line of gerontius' fourth son, hildigrim, or more specifically, paladin took II (pippin's father) hildigrim's grandson. paladin, was a farmer in the town of whitwell before becoming thain. after paladin, in the year 1434, the office was passed to his son, peregrin.
this was some thirteen years after his return to the shire, making pippin about 41 or 42 years old when he came to office. the thainship was held by pippin, until his old age, at 94 peregrin passed the office to his son faramir I, and left with his friend the master of buckland (merry!) to go south.
and now to clear up the duty musings.
in days of old, the thain was in charge of shire-muster and the shire-moot, two actions which were only called for in times of great emergency, but as the shire lived in relative (perky happy) peace for many years, the thainship became not much more than a dignity name.
aw... but what a dignity indeed!
uofjc1983:
excellent research lostsailors! great reading... and although he didn't wear the title yet, don't forget who mustered the troops in the scouring-- our beloved peregrin! okay... they were basically all the tooks of great smials...
i heard it, more than saw it, when merry said he (pippin) was mad and they'd for sure get caught... "not this time!" replied pippin... i heard the change in his voice, then i saw the change in his whole countenance... and the hope. oh, the confidence of that hope! i think he already found his courage there in fangorn.
katyliz76:
i don't think pj could have cast a better person for the role. billy is what i envisioned when i read fotr. there could be no better person to play the role.
kate
lostsailors:
hee uofjc, i had a whole little bit written up there about the final shire muster at the end of the books and a bunch of info about paladin defending the great smials against the ruffians, but took it out of the post, because, good gracious, it was getting long!
kate, so true, so true. i was really delighted by the casting. it's not like i had any set-in-stone picture in my head of what the character was supposed to look like, but yes- boyd was so befit for the role!
hey hey, i have a question for everyone here. i was thinking about rotk the other day (spoilers ahead), you know how bergil/beregond have been cut from the film? well, then, i was wondering, who does pippin defend from the troll chieftain then? in the book, beregond is stunned by the troll and is about to be killed when pippin comes and slays the creature.
if beregond doesn't exist, who kindles pippin's spirit so he can kill a monster five times his size?
i mean... i hope the scene is in the film! the slaying... it's one of pippin's most brave moments, and certainly the most touching when he thinks he is dying.
i don't know, what do you think?
isa:
you got me all worried there... but i want to trust pj so bad on this: he just can't leave pippin becoming a hero moment out of the movie. i'm sure he as a trick or two up his sleeve. it's just too important for the evolution of the character.
and i agree with you kate!! actually, all hobbits are exactly how i saw them. i was never really touched with the drawings i saw of them. pj really captured the essence of hobbitness.
uofjc1983:
lostsailors-- forgive me for doubting such a devoted fan! i knew with all that in-depth research, you really couldn't have missed anything! but, hey, (pipkin and lostsailors) write it, and even if it takes me past midnight, i'll read it!! you both are so talented!
no way!! pippin fells that huge troll-- and if beregond/bergil are out, then pj needs to find other troll fodder for pippin to rescue... there's a piece of music on ttt cd (#14) that does nothing but remind me of haldir (of course), and then... all i see is gimli or legolas carrying pippin, all limp and bloody, to gandalf. his poor little body all broken...
as much as i love billy's portrayal of pippin, i first saw pippin in a book on hildebrandt's illustrations, and loved pippin then... but, billy really gives him life. and that's the pippin i have come to really know and admire.
pipkin sweetgrass:
it's funny, isn't it, how these characters are so very real, you feel you know them.
yes, i'm worried about that scene, how it will be handled... if it will be handled. i wonder if the part about pippin laughing at his own death will be in it. that part just broke my heart in two. i thought i would cry myself into fits when i thought pip was dead. he's so young, and such a dear thing, and so very clever and brave!
i've thought about dying sometimes, and wondered if i would laugh like pippin did. seems to me, you might as well.
i like to think i could be like merry or pippin. they really are the greatest. one of the things i love about pippin is his ability to do what he wants, yet do the right thing when the time comes. yes, he does get into trouble sometimes, but i like that. does my attraction to this side of him, and to boromir, come to that, say something about my taste in men, i wonder? maybe i like a guy that's just a little bit bad? not really evil, but just a bit naughty...
i tend to be that way myself, so maybe this is true of me. i kind of like having someone ride herd on me a bit. go fig! maybe that's why i understand both pippin and boromir, and really identify with them.